Sudden Jerking of Arms, and Yelling
29 Oct 2010 28 Comments
by Bruce (born 2b me) in Asperger's, autism Tags: Asperger's, autism, embarrassment, questions, social faux pas
SUDDEN JERKING OF ARMS, AND YELLING: Is this autism or something else?
I feel weird about letting this out. I have never talked to anyone about it, and I don’t want to lose my dear readers and blogging friends. But I have puzzled over this for ages.
HERE IS WHAT I EXPERIENCE: I will be sitting in a chair, or maybe driving, and my hands and forearms will suddenly fly upwards. My hands will sometimes clap once, and sometimes I will let out a yell (AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!). I never do this in public. Occasionally, if I am a passenger in a car, and not engaged in conversation but remembering one, my hand will snap up off my knee a few inches. But I never yell or clap in public.
HERE IS WHAT BRINGS IT ON: This response is triggered by memories, or recollections, of social interactions that did not go well in my judgement. Memories of any other kind of failure, mess-up, or disaster, will not elicit this response. There must be a social component.
A RECENT EXAMPLE: I drove about one-and-a-half hours to a meditation meeting. I arrived early, as is my habit, and started helping one of the co-leaders to set up the cushions. He asked, “How was the drive up?” I answered “Oh, it was fun”, (I drive a Mustang
), but then I proceeded, while setting up cushions, to tell him how and why the journey was “fun”, and I only stopped part way through my explanation when I realized I was talking to his back as he continued setting up.
His question, “How was the drive up?” was simply a greeting, his way of saying, “I see you and welcome you,” period, full-stop. He didn’t want to know how or why my drive was “fun”. His question was in the order of “How are you?”. Just a social convention. But of course I took it literally.
Then, about three hours later as I was driving home in the dark, I suddenly lurched, or yanked myself forward, at the steering wheel, and let out a yell. The trigger was simply a flashback to the co-leader’s greeting and my unskilled response. My physical lurch and yell were simultaneous to the flashback, and not at all a conscious or deliberate act. It was something that just happened to me. The strange thing is that at the time of my social “error”, I wasn’t blushing or embarrassed. I may have felt a bit rejected. Mostly, I simply realized I should stop talking. It was only later that I had this sudden “reaction”. I can write about it now, two days after the event, without having any reaction at all.
(Edit: the day after writing this, but before posting, I was driving and had a sudden flashback to the exchange with the co-leader. I involuntarily lurched forward and loudly vocalized “Oh, sh*t,” So I guess at some subconscious level it must be really bothering me).
MY QUESTION: I am new to the autism spectrum world and have so much to learn. I am wondering if the behaviour described above can be attributed to autism, or is it something else? I would appreciate your thoughts on this.
Like this:
Previous Trapped in a Pressure Cooker Next Birds, God, and Faith.
Oct 29, 2010 @ 19:28:13
It sounds most to me like Tourette’s, which is not an uncommon co-morbid with autism. Also, some aspects of autism can masquerade as Tourette’s, cause an autistic person to first be misdiagnosed as having Tourette’s. It’s tricky to unravel things to see whether tics are Tourette’s or tourettism (autistic tics that resemble, but are not, true Tourette’s.)
http://consults.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/09/are-autism-and-tourettes-related/
http://tourettesyndromenowwhat.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/1554
Oct 29, 2010 @ 21:02:23
Thanks for your help with this UM.
I checked your links and Tourette’s isn’t a good fit for me. I also went to a NYT article on Tourette’s
http://health.nytimes.com/health/guides/disease/gilles-de-la-tourette-syndrome/overview.html?WT.z_gsac=1
and read the diagnostic criteria and that confirmed that I don’t fit the diagnosis.
These “events” that I posted about are not very frequent. I definitely don’t have the itching urge to “tic” that the Tourette’s people report. What happens to me is a sudden involtary response to a recollection of a social event. Without a recollection of a social event it never happens. Nor does it repeat on a given occasion. I have never had the facial or body tics or vocal noises that the Tourette’s folks report. Also it is not a daily problem for me.
I gather from the links that my experiences could indeed fit with an autism/Asperger’s diagnosis though.
You are truly a fount of knowledge! Thanks for sharing it with me.
Oct 29, 2010 @ 21:15:52
UM: on thinking about it some more, I know I “qualify” for Social Anxiety and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I don’t think I fit OCD but I do have some tendencies there. Perhaps I will dig around some more and see if SA, GAD, or OCD might explain things a bit.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 05:25:50
If you don’t have tourette’s, it can be completely explained by tourettism — autistic tics that resemble tourette’s but are not tourette’s. As you can see, autism is on the list of causes of tourettism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourettism
Asperger tics can come with strong urges or can come “out of the blue”
http://www.asperger-advice.com/asperger-tics.html
“Tics may increase as a result of negative emotions such as stress, tiredness or anxiety, but positive emotions as well, such as excitement or anticipation. These emotions are often experienced in those diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. This is why tics in children or adults with autistic disorders can be more common.”
Tony Attwood’s book about Asperger’s Syndrome says that research ahs indicated that between 20 and 60 percent of people with AS develop tics which can range from momentary twitches to complex movements. Tics are not caused by stress but are worsened by stress.
http://tinyurl.com/2dtmnsg
So it is possible that you have very, very mild tics, such that they *only* display when stress worsens them and, for whatever reason, the remembrance of social difficulties is the stressor most likely to bring on a tic.
Do you remember having any sort of tic as a child? Attwood’s book says that 40 percent of children with tics grow out of them. I remember I had several tics as a child including throat “clicking” (a sort of throat clearing) and allergy-mimicking tics such as snuffling and pushing at my nose so often that I made a permanent crease in it. I still have some tics today, including some compulsive face touching, but most of my tics did fade away as I grew up.
If you had tics as a child that faded away, then you probably have your answer right there: residual tics so mild they only come out with stress. I honestly don’t know if asperger-related tics develop in adulthood or not. Most of what I’ve seen says they develop in childhood (one way to differentiate between touretttism and tourette’s since tourette’s generally develops later than tourettism.) but I don’t know if that means that asperger’s tics *only* develop in childhood.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 16:39:27
@UM: God I love how much I learn from you. Dickson had a tic as a child. That’s just so fascinating to me. Thanks.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 15:42:40
UM: thanks for your very thorough response. My original question was “Is this autism or something else?” I think you’ve nailed it here: Autism!
These events have been occuring for many years (I’m 65). I have no memory of them when I was a child but I can’t say when they began. I do recall a twitching eye bothering me in elementary school but not so much as an adult. I also have some vague memory of a recurring twitching deltoid or triceps muscle on one arm when I was young.
Social encounters, and memories of “(Edit: social) failures”, are a huge stressor for me. I can see how they could bring out residual tics.
Thanks for explaining this so well. When I was reading your comment I felt tears welling up — partly because I was touched by your kindness in doing this and partly because it supports my self-diagnosis of autism. Thanks.
Oct 29, 2010 @ 21:45:44
I think you have your definitive answer – “while there may be overlap in the causative genetics of Autism/Tourette’s, it’s not significant.”
That is, unless you’re part of the small minority who has the overlap.
Oct 29, 2010 @ 22:47:59
Come to think of it, there is no history on either side of my family for Tourette’s, but I strongly suspect both my parents may have been Aspies, and probably all four grandparents.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 00:32:39
Well, late to the party as usual. I was gonna say Tourette’s too. Since that’s pretty much been hammered. Do you have a counselor or therapist? I’m thinking, that would be a great place to start getting some answers. It sounds dangerous if it happens while you’re driving and whatnot.
Sorry, I’m not any help.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 14:56:34
Thanks for your input Laura. I don’t experience it as dangerous while driving because it is so brief and my hands never leave the steering wheel, nor do my eyes close. If there was anything tricky going on outside the windshield my mind would be focused on the road rather than recollecting a previous social encounter (which is the only thing that generates these responses).
I don’t have a counsellor or therapist, but UnstrangeMind has set my mind at ease with her thorough comment of Oct. 30, 2010 @ 05:25:50 above.
Showing up and expressing concern is in itself “help”, Laura. Much appreciated.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 17:57:46
Laura: I agree, UM is truly amazing!
Oct 30, 2010 @ 19:40:53
Thanks, guys, you’re so kind! It’s good to be able to put my bits of knowledge to genuine use. As you probably know, research is my big obsession and ever since I found out I have autism, that’s been a HUGE specific subject of my general research obsession.
My dad used to make fun of my tendency to “collect” lots of bits of information by telling me that my obsession with trivia meant I have a “very trivial mind.” It feels good (and a little like a nose-thumb at his mocking me all my life until I left my parents’ house) to be able to find a non-trivial use for some of the trivia floating around in my head. Thanks.
Oct 30, 2010 @ 20:00:26
You know it’s so funny you said that. One of the things Dickson teases me about is the Autism is my perseveration! LOL
Ironic, no?
Oct 31, 2010 @ 00:59:28
Ironic, no?
I’m not sure. Can you explain the irony to me?
Oct 31, 2010 @ 07:52:20
Just that one of the traits of Autism is perseveration, and since finding out I’m an Aspie, my perseveration has been Autism. I don’t know…seems ironic to me, but I may not have a firm understanding of irony. :shrug: Just thought it was kinda funny at any rate. Hope I didn’t say anything wrong.
Nov 03, 2010 @ 09:30:13
No, you didn’t say anything wrong. I see what you’re referring to now. I would have called it something like recursiveness. Maybe it’s irony . . .
I always thought irony was something like the James Bond movie where he falls in love and gets married (yes, Bond gets married in ‘On Her Majesty’s Secret Service’ ) and right at the end of the film he makes some comment about how they have all the time in the world. Then the bad guys come driving by, shooting, and kill his new wife. The movie ends with him cradling her dead body and murmuring into her hair, “we have all the time in the world.” And that is irony, because they have no time at all now.
… just looked up irony and it’s an incongruity. Irony is closely related to sarcasm (which means it’s very complex and a bit abstract and is going to be more difficult for folks like you and I to grasp) and it’s when “there is an incongruity or discordance that goes beyond the simple and evident meaning of words or actions.” An example given on Wikipedia is a photo of a man carrying a protest sign that says “I can’t afford an actual sign.” Except he has a sign. So it’s irony.
(Alanis Morrisette’s “rain on your wedding day” is not technically ironic but “a free trip when you’ve already paid” (or whatever that next lyric is) might be considered ironic because of the incongruity of getting a free trip that you paid for.)
More ironic would be “I learned that I have a condition that includes a trait of obsessing on things but I didn’t obsess about my condition at all.” or maybe “and I became so obsessed about being an obsessive that I stopped obsessing about anything . .. as my new obsession.” I think that might be ironic. . .
. . .but irony is looking like one of those things that’s a little too abstract for me to properly grasp.
(This is why my undergrad degree is a bachelor of science instead of a bachelor of arts — it was the only way I could get out of having to take a philosophy class.)
Nov 01, 2010 @ 16:44:39
This is fascinating. My son BB also reacts physically to what I am sure are flashbacks. I’d really like to refer to your post (with a link, of course) in a post I am planning about this topic, if this is ok with you. Thank you so much – I’ve been telling people that he has flashbacks to stressful moments, and nobody’s taken me seriously. It’s such a relief to find that I may be on the right lines after all.
Nov 01, 2010 @ 23:38:33
bbsmum, sorry it took me so long to realise that you had commented on this post. Yes, you may refer to it. Thank you for asking. I am so glad you found it helpful.
Nov 03, 2010 @ 21:31:34
I follow bbsmum and she referred us to your site. It’s very enlightening. Now I have an idea why my son may be shaking his arms and such.
As far as having uncomfortable social memories, I have them myself occasionally. I think everybody does. But I just shake my head and try to redirect my thoughts.
Nov 03, 2010 @ 22:25:19
Thanks for commenting DeeAnn. I just sent this post up as a question that puzzled me. I had no idea it would resonate with others also. UnstrangeMind supplied the answer with her thorough comment of Oct. 30, 2010 @ 05:25:50 above. I’m glad people are finding it helpful.
Jan 12, 2011 @ 12:54:43
HI, Bruce.
I’ve been replying at probably unnecessary length to a comment over at my blog by bbsmum, and she referred me to this post of yours. This is a fascinating conversation.
As I related there, I don’t believe I’m making any big outward gestures someone would notice when I take a quick trip to the past. I’m pretty “controlled” most of the time, so maybe that carries over into flashing back. But I definitely catch myself mumbling things and changing my facial expression when I’m having one of these “moments”. And if I happen to flash back on something like a creepy scene from a movie or something disgusting I came across at home, I will cringe and tense up just as if I were having the experience in the present moment. Many of my moments have to do with experiences of social anxiety.
My NT (mostly
husband actually does something related to that, too, with recent or upcoming conversations that he finds or expects will be particularly bothersome or upsetting, and we refer to it as “having a conversation in your head” when one of us catches the other doing it. His only seem to come with facial gestures as far as what other people can see, and they seem to be limited to time within a day or so, past or future.
I liked Laura’s comment about perseverating about autism. I do that, too
Jan 12, 2011 @ 17:03:53
Hi Diane,
I’m glad you enjoyed the conversation. I felt I was taking a risk by revealing something that I hadn’t ever told anyone. I was very happy to see my Bloggyland friends rally round and help work this through in a very supportive way. Blogging is the best therapy!
And yes, I think I perseverate on my interest in Asperger’s and autism too. It really is fascinating and it seems to be at the core of my being – so I guess I have become my favourite subject these days!
Thanks for sharing. I’ve been rather swamped lately and having trouble keeping up with blogging.
Bruce
Jul 04, 2011 @ 07:09:48
My ex once told me i ‘twitched’ when driving, and after a lot of thought, i realized i only did it when imagining something bad about to happen, eg when seeing a car approaching a bit fast, and thinking ‘oh what if that car bangs into me’ (i should add here, that it did happen once, and my car was wrecked), or, ‘what if i spin out on that corner’ (this also happened once, with another car, also wrecked), so it was a case of too much imagination and the remembering of past traumas.
As far as remembering/realizing, often much later, that i’ve committed yet another social faux pas, i will do a sort of whole-body flinch and want to cry, briefly, tho i don’t cry out. I suppose i might look strange to the eyes of whatever NT is around, if one was, but then i don’t let such feelings emerge when anyone is around!
Jul 04, 2011 @ 20:37:15
Yes, the “lurch” that I mentioned in my post may be on the same dimension as your “whole body flinch.” Your words certainly resonate with me, so I suppose I’ve done that somehow. I’m fairly good at suppressing these reactions in public but if I’m a passenger in the car with my family, and I’m lost in thought, I can have my hand suddenly jump off my knee if I remember some interaction that I judged negatively. Strange thing is other people probably wouldn’t have judged these encounters as negatively as I did.
Jul 06, 2011 @ 15:36:23
I do the whole body flinch/cringe thing too! Very often when I remember awkward moments, but too many times due to my imagination. I will imagine something very awkward or embarrassing, and flinch like that. It is not like I want to think about such things, the thoughts usually just pops into my head and I cringe with my whole body.
Phew – another thing I have never shared and never thought others experience!
Jul 07, 2011 @ 19:32:14
That is something I really like about Aspie/autie Bloggyland, discovering that I am not alone!